This topic contains 3 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  The Bearded Belgian 1 year, 3 months ago.

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  • #2309

    The Bearded Belgian

    I was reading trough this and was very much encouraged, since I have just started tacking Romans again in my devotions and was wondering what Paul meant when he used the word faith and that salvation comes by faith. So my finding this article was pretty timely, and I’ll probably mill it over a few times in the next few days to get a real grasp on it, since I’m having a hard time concentrating today.

    Also, I was wondering if the situation in which the conquistadors threw water on the native americans before killing them to make sure they got to heaven was a recognized reasoning by the Roman Catholic Church or wether it was something they invented themselves to soothe their conscience. Living in a country that has been a Roman Catholic Country for a long time I can say that what people in parishes do and what the actual theology subscribes are often not the same.

    But this is besides the actual point of the weblog post, so I’m not gonna push for answers about that here.

    I do like that you have the three ways to see faith, clearly explained. I remember seeing an anti-catholicism documentary from the fundamental evangelistic side of the faith claiming that they could only receive the grace and mercy through the sacraments, explaining the sacraments as works. When I asked a Catholic friend about that he was very shocked that that was being said. That said, I have not personally read the Roman Catholic Catechism myself, so I can’t really make claims on how they truly see it.

    And I’ve only touched the surface of it with my Greek Orthodox colleague, who seems to be even more relying on sacraments, though some sacrifices can totally be made in the form of them since the Orthodox denominations (Greek, Eastern, Syrian, Ethiopian …) have even less members in Belgium than the Protestant denomination (and we’re at 1%) they often have to settle with having mass at home-churches, so they have to improvise to have altars, baptisms, etc. On the other hand, communion for them seems to have to actually be bread and actually be wine, (not grape juice for example) with the reasoning that when it is changed it is no longer wine, and can no longer make one drunk. Which is an interesting take, which would give some fun discussions, but we often do not really have the time for these discussions since these topics usually come up when it’s time to leave the school.

    Anyway, I’m rambling. All I wanted to actually say was thank you for this topic, and that I might return once I’ve struggled with it for myself a bit more.

  • #2310

    The Bearded Belgian

    The edit button does not seem to work, but I wanted to add a link to the article for ease of use. I will leave it here then: http://www.mjyoung.net/weblog/index.php/187-sacrificing-sola-fide/

  • #2322


    I’m glad it helped. On the edit button, there’s supposed to be a ten-minute window after which it no longer works. I tried increasing it, but only got that far; I might try again, as I think half an hour is probably more reasonable, although I can see how on a very active forum you wouldn’t want someone to alter a post after someone else replied to it.

    You are of course correct that what a denomination believes and what the members practice do not always mesh. I do not know who might or might not have endorsed the Native American baptism process, but it does seem to be consistent with the Roman Catholic theology of infant baptism: what matters is whether those performing the ritual (usually including the parents/presenters) have faith by proxy. The individual later embraces faith himself through confirmation. (From what I understand of Calvinist infant baptism, it is perceived as replacing circumcision as that ritual which makes the child a member of the faith community within which he will grow into his own faith, expressed again at confirmation. Those denominations following Baptist tradition, of course, do not see baptism as more than a prescribed form of confession–you are not more saved after it than before it, but have been obedient to Christ’s directive on the subject.)

    Romans was the first book we tackled in the Chaplain’s Bible Study, and I can get you the link to that (you probably need a Yahoo! login to read it) if you’re interested.


  • #2325

    The Bearded Belgian

    Ah yes, I see the principle now. It’s funny that while I was raised a catholic and did all the confirmations (confusingly, we called those communions as well, since the first one is the one you do to make you able to receive communion during mass), we never really got those basics in the catechism lessons leading up to it. And I probably was the most interested one in that group, the rest mainly did it out of tradition, and thus their main motivation was the presents they would get and the fancy clothes they could wear, so if we did learn it, I should have remembered it.

    I would try making a yahoo account, but I’m not good at keeping accounts active that I only use for access. I might have one and never have used it, except when I was trying out an image hosting site that I think requires it, and which I gave up on. I’ll have to see wether it is still active.

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A generalist: learning less and less about more and more, one day to know nothing about everything.